Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 09, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56

12+1+3 Hammer Mastery
8+1 Strength
10 Smiting

Devastating Hammer {E}
Crushing Blow
Hammer Bash
Irresistable Blow
Frenzy
Sprint
Holy Strike
Smite Hex

I used to have res sig instead of frenzy but bah*...

NightOwl · Oct 09, 2005, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Tried it. Hammer isn't my thing, but I guess it's alright.

I thought your DBS build was more interesting though.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 09, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

People don't like it cause they don't see me trying to chop down on the weaknesses of said elite...

Also, I now run Berserker Stance instead of frenzy...

I watch my attacks and it hurts my combo.

I find myself doing

Devastating, Crushing, Hammer Bash

and the enemy is STILL trying to get up during bash so it doesn't register...

At normal attackspeed, Dev, Crush, Bash, chains just fine... I don't swing it too early...

also, if I wait too long to let hammer bash strike later [doing 2 swings while foe is trying to get up], by the time I swing with bash, they're gone running...

Neo-LD · Oct 09, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

rule: warriors carry res sigs.

get rid of smite hex, let the monk inspire it. you have 5 other energy skills anyways

telarin · Oct 09, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

rule: warriors carry res sigs.

Yeap, everyone should carry one.

Entropius · Oct 10, 2005, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Heal and prot monks shouldn't, in 8v8.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 10, 2005, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

rule: warriors carry res sigs.

get rid of smite hex, let the monk inspire it. you have 5 other energy skills anyways

True. I sometimes bring Ressurect skill... Rarely though. Res sig is fine, it's just too tempting to bring reusable res in a place where people don't target you usually lol...

But in Random, I bring Smite Hex, it's fun doing 180 dmg for 5 energy ^_^

Schorny · Oct 10, 2005, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

But in Random, I bring Smite Hex, it's fun doing 180 dmg for 5 energy ^_^

how much damage could your dead teammate do while he is alive?

I guess much more. And he distracts the enemy attacks and even if he dies, he will get your team more time to kill the enemy.

Eonwe · Oct 10, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

and the enemy is STILL trying to get up during bash so it doesn't register...

At normal attackspeed, Dev, Crush, Bash, chains just fine... I don't swing it too early...

While frenzied: Devastating ---> two hits ---> Hammer Bash. Maybe you just need to time it better.

White Designs · Oct 10, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entropius

Heal and prot monks shouldn't, in 8v8.

2 and a Hard res in GvG for the win

Foppe · Oct 10, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

How much dmg does HS do at 10 smiting

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 10, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

While frenzied: Devastating ---> two hits ---> Hammer Bash. Maybe you just need to time it better.

I suppose. When I'm going for the 2 hits however, their running and I have to chase them while under frenzy [gah]

Would this work [in that they can't get away after the opening 3 hits?]

1. Devastating Hammer {E}
2. Crushing Blow
3. Mighty Blow
Hammer Bash
Frenzy
Sprint
Holy Strike
Smite Hex/Res Sig/Res

I like it. My only gripe is that I can't fit Irresistable Blow in there. [having a near guarunteed KD if they try anything is sooo tempting...]

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 10, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foppe

How much dmg does HS do at 10 smiting

Holy strike does -40 -40 on most enemies.
-38 -38 on warriors [it ignores armor to a LARGE degree, but not completely]
on Tormentor Necros it's -58 -58 JOOOYY!!! ^_^

That 80 may not sound like much, but for 5 energy armor ignoring vs. the hefty 10e. After Shock [which is best on multiple enemies on their asses with low elemental armor resistance], HS is my choice for efficiency hands down.

[that and ele don't carry smite hex ^_^]

Eonwe · Oct 10, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I suppose. When I'm going for the 2 hits however, their running and I have to chase them while under frenzy [gah]

What? The two hits is when they're on the ground.

beginners_luck · Oct 10, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Isn't this innovation right here? I thought most W/Mo's were sword-mongers. A cool thing to do if you like more adrenaline attacks (like if you picked axe as your weapon) you could put Balthazar's Spirit on your bar. Really helps with more expensive skills that way.

Zeru · Oct 10, 2005, 05:09 PM // 17:09

This isn't innovation it's a very standard hammer build except it's got holy strike which is a joke. You say it's going to cause 40-40, odds are a hammer hit is going to cause more than that for 0 energy. Irresistible blow will certainly do more. I'd rather have judge insight than smite hex but whatever.

FYI overloading on res sigs is a bad idea unless you're running some front loaded offense type build with few ways of healing/damage mitigation. In gvg anything more than 3 sigs is generally going to inhibit the performance of your characters too much. Some characters simply cannot take one. Don't get caught up in the mindset of res sig>anything else because that's so not true.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 10, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

What? The two hits is when they're on the ground.

Ok, to make it a bit more clear, I can land the two hits while they're down, but when it comes to the bash, there is enough time for them to be up and running...

As for Zeru, if that Hammer hit you speak so fondly of is so good, I'd like to see it do damage when the enemy is hiding underneath a blocking stance or enchant shield... [they can stance or a teammate can enchant them while they're down]

Holy Strike is deadly because it ignores almost all degrees of armor. The opening hammer combo is already devastating but if its damage is negated, HS SLICES through the enemy's defenses. No other skill outside necro or mesmer piercing can top that.

What's more, for 5e. you can look at necro touches and you'll see that there's a NICE jump in efficiency. The knockdown condition fits it well and I've finished off many a foe using HS... HS alone is crap, HS at the end of an already devastating combo is excellent.

Zeru, I'm with you on that Res sig argument, however this isn't innovation. It IS standard. I'm pointing this out in that it seems to be among the minds of the 'learned' that this is the only way to go and any other hammer type that tries anything new is just slapped down regardless...

Now my question on my mind is if Irresistable Blow can be dropped for Mighty Blow in a Frenzied combo.

Eonwe · Oct 10, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

What the hell are you talking about enough time to get up and run away? Do you not use stonefists or something, or are you just on drugs?

Zeru · Oct 10, 2005, 08:57 PM // 20:57

If you're worried about blocking start spamming irresistible blow. It's a great great skill.

Evades/blocks hurt hammers more than other weapons because they have 2 usually 3 attacks they need to hit. But why on earth would you spike a target who has that? If your team is running on minimal enchant removal that's your own fault.

There are multiple paths for hammers to take. You can go /Mo for JI, /E for conjure, or /mes for drain enchant and ranged interrupts.

The core skills of hammers never change though:
Devastating Hammer
Hammer Bash
Crushing Blow
Irresistible Blow
Sprint

At top level gvg, the metagame has 1-2 warrior spike teams assisted by casters. The spikes are generally going to be under 2 seconds of burst dps or they are going to fail because the monks will be able to react and throw enough crap on the guy two make him able to withstand the burst dps the spike can put out till the monks can throw more crap on him. The other way is to remove reactive enchants by secondary characters in the middle of the spike, making a 4~ second spike still able to succeed. In the former, the spike will fail or succeed after 1-2 hammer hits. In the latter, you're going to want to keep the target knocklocked during the whole spike and you will (hopefully) be able to hit an unenchanted target. Basically you're going to be doing devastating->crushing->(add 1 more hit in here with frenzy) hammer bash->irres or mighty. Holy strike does not work in either of those scenarios.

And eonwe is right, if you do the combo correctly the target may be able to move but he'll still get kd'ed no matter what he does. Don't forget your stonefists!

JYX · Oct 10, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Ok, to make it a bit more clear, I can land the two hits while they're down, but when it comes to the bash, there is enough time for them to be up and running...

Ok never had that. But just for fun, if they run, tap sprint and give them a bash to the head, carry on the lock. I'm more worried about it if a guy gets up and pulls a RoF on me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I'd like to see it do damage when the enemy is hiding underneath a blocking stance...The opening hammer combo is already devastating but if its damage is negated HS SLICES through the enemy's defenses.

Ok, if your opening barrage gets negated...then the enemy isn't going to be on the floor. HS dosen't help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

What's more, for 5e. you can look at necro touches and you'll see that there's a NICE jump in efficiency.

Thats because the touches are all skills, and they all recharge shockingly fast and there are 4 of them so you can chain it (well...3 and plague touch). If it was efficient on top of that we'd all be running around touching people for laughs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

HS alone is crap, HS at the end of an already devastating combo is excellent.

Mending alone is crap. Mending+32x obsidian flame = PHWOAR! Point being, you can use irresistable at the end of the chain and get a similar result. The main problem I have with this build is that it has six energy skills for a warrior. The hammer warrior especially I don't find a good choice for e skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Zeru, I'm with you on that Res sig argument, however this isn't innovation.

Good point on the rez sig. Especially in GvG. I like to take 4 though, three is such an unmagical number.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Now my question on my mind is if Irresistable Blow can be dropped for Mighty Blow in a Frenzied combo.

I'd rather drop holy strike, which frees up the secondary...for...rend? Whatever you feel like really. Slip Mighty Blow in between the devastating and the bash. Finish off with Irresistable. I forego crushing blow because usually theres a teammate with eviscerate already under the belt. Also with the utils I like to take, its usually too much of a strain.

devastating/mighty blow/hammer bash/irresistable/[util slot]/frenzy/sprint/rez
10+1 strength / 12+4 hammer / 8 util

the util for me is Rend, simply because we don't have enough enchant removal on our team. But...whatever floats your boat. Go all into warrior and take crushing if you feel like it. I believe thats a pretty "cookie cutter" build.